Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205
04/04/2007 04:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing - Adf&g, Commissioner-designate Denby Lloyd | |
| SB103 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| *+ | SB 103 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 103-LAND TRANSFERS ALASKA RR & EKLUTNA
CHAIR HUGGINS announced SB 103 to be up for consideration.
5:13:58 PM
PAT GAMBLE, President and CEO, Alaska Railroad Corporation
(ARRC), supported SB 103 saying that in accordance with the
Railroad Transfer Act, the ARRC seeks permission from the
legislature to transfer about 48 acres of ARRC property to
Eklutna Inc. with the blessing of Eklutna Village. The purpose
of the transfer is to end a long-standing gridlock over this
particular piece of property that started out as a quarry. It
was quarried for a number of years until such time as they
became aware that it was also a significant cultural icon in the
history of the Eklutnas. They became gridlocked in terms of
using any quarry product and figured any future mining
possibilities were very remote. After much unsuccessful
litigation, they decided the right thing to do was recognize it
as a cultural issue and resolve it by signing the land over to
the Eklutnas. In addition, Eklutna, Inc. and CIRI, to the extent
that it has rights under the surface of lands all through this
particular area, have a lot of interests that the Railroad
wanted to further over time.
5:17:43 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked what the status of the land is to the
Railroad right now.
MR. GAMBLE replied that it is one of fee simple ownership.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked what the ARRC would get in exchange
for the transfer.
MR. GAMBLE replied that the transfer is not value for value, but
rather:
We are transferring the property just simply because
we feel that it's rightfully theirs and we're not
going to use it. We're not going to mine the quarry
any more as we had over a number of years. In the
sense that there's an exchange, they have agreed that
any rock that is currently laying on the ground that
was shot in the past - it's been there for several
years - any rock of whatever size that would be part
of a cleanup that we would go in and do and bring the
materials out in order to leave the land clean, we
could have. In addition, if there was any desire of
Eklutna Village or Eklutna Inc to try to landscape the
face of what has already been shot, quarried, over the
years and to try to clean that up and make it look a
little more presentable, we're certainly amenable to
going in and with certain restrictions doing that
cleanup and again picking up whatever comes off the
face as we clean that up and take that out, too,
before we roll the track up.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how he can say the land belongs to
the Railroad in fee simple, but yet the land rightfully belongs
to Eklutna.
MR. GAMBLE explained that's part of the cultural determination
he and his staff made when looking into the history of how the
land came into the Railroad's hands. "Things were done in a way
that we probably would not accept today." The objection raised
by the Eklutna Village in the late 90s highlighted this issue to
the point where their interests were recognized finally by the
Railroad and the federal government.
5:20:07 PM
He related that the history goes back to World War II when the
Eklutna Village offered the quarry to the Army to use. The Army
ran the Railroad in those days. After the war ended, the Native
School that owned the property closed the quarry and moved,
surplusing the land. The Railroad asked for the quarry and the
Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), not the Village, gave it to
them. The Village felt like it had been sold out at that point.
This is the story he heard over and over again.
He explained that in the North Anchorage Land Agreement (NALA)
the Railroad was given the right to mine the quarry down to the
flat ground. However, the very name "Eklutna" talks about the
geographical features [the two knobs on either side of the
river] that were being mined away.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if this property had an appraisal.
MR. GAMBLE replied no.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he knew what it was worth.
MR. GAMBLE answered no.
5:21:59 PM
CURTIS MCQUEEN, Corporate Affairs, Eklutna Inc., supported SB
130 and added that this is a 30-year plus wound for Eklutna Inc.
and the Native Village of Eklutna. They both serve the same
clients and work very close together. Eklutna Inc. is the for-
profit corporation and the Village is the federally recognized
tribe. "Elutnoi" means the river that runs between and the two
knobs on either side of the river are what Eklutna is to the
people. To have them continue to be mined down to flat ground
goes to the core of their identity. With Mr. Gamble's arrival to
the Railroad, it was recognized as a long-term issue and other
mutually favorable long-term issues were found that they could
work together on in terms of land trades.
5:23:58 PM
JIM ARNESEN, Land Manager, Eklutna, Inc., said one thing that
has been left out so far is the tie-in to the Alaska Native
Claims Settlement Act (ANSCA) and the Alaska National Interest
Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA). The Railroad had temporary
rights to this property which would self-extinguish when it
could no longer use the property. ANILCA didn't deal with every
land issue and this property was envisioned to go back to
Eklutna over 30 years ago in ANSCA.
5:25:28 PM
DANIEL ALEX, Tribal Administrator, Native Village of Eklutna,
supported Mr. McQueen's comments that only temporary use was
granted. Section 3 of the ANSCA said that Eklutna, Inc. was
entitled to the property. He mentioned that Eklutna, Inc.
signed an MOU with the ARRC saying it could use the materials
that were already quarried and that the Railroad would
restructure the landscape once it was done.
5:27:25 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if anyone objects to this transaction.
MR. ALEX replied that the Council speaks for the Native Village
of Eklutna and it supports the MOU.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked who signed the MOU dated January 22, 2007.
He saw the signatures of Mr. Gamble and Mr. Alex.
MR. ALEX responded that the MOU dates back before he became the
tribal administrator. He thought Jerry [indisc.] was deputy
executive officer. The MOU went back a couple of years.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he was talking about the 1982 version.
MR. ALEX replied [indisc.].
5:29:39 PM
MR. MCQUEEN clarified that for the last 2.5 years the Native
Village of Eklutna and the ARRC have had a MOU that contained
certain dates. As those dates have come up, they have been
reaffirmed by signing amendments to continue the MOU. This goes
back quite a long way.
5:30:27 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if there were other aspects to the land
transfer agreement the legislature should be aware of.
MR. MCQUEEN replied that there are some conditions have been
worked out with the ARRC regarding blasting overhangs that might
be dangerous - including a schedule and times of days and nights
they need to be respectful of. However, they all agree that the
sooner they can get in and get that stock pile off the ground,
the better. They have requested that this summer season be the
one they do it in.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked Mr. Gamble if the Railroad could meet those
cleanup obligations. He indicated yes.
5:31:53 PM
BONNE' WOLSTAD, Fairbanks, said she was glad the ARRC recognized
the ownership issues and was working to solve them.
SENATOR STEDMAN commended the Railroad on taking a proactive
direction in settling this issue and setting a good example in
how to resolve other similar situations. He is comfortable with
the settlement, but he would have liked to see an appraisal.
5:34:06 PM
He asked if there is a Railroad right-of-way that goes into the
quarry site that isn't referenced on the aerial survey.
MR. GAMBLE replied that the right-of-way is the spur line going
into the quarry and that would be part of the cleanup. As they
bring the material out it is their intention to pull the rail up
and return the right-of-way strip to its natural look as much as
possible. So, the main line which is a couple hundred yards down
from that spur will then bypass the entire piece of property.
5:35:05 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked since this is a cultural and historic
site, is it fair to say the Eklutna Village has no plans to mine
or develop the property.
MR. MCQUEEN replied that is correct; they are working to keep
that area in its pristine natural state. Eklutna, Inc. has other
lands outside of this area that may potentially be mine-able
rock, but do not have cultural significance and do not have the
ties to the Eklutna River that these two knobs have.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if any municipalities in the area
have weighed in either in support of or opposed to this plan.
MR. MCQUEEN replied that they have had tremendous support from
Mayor Begich and the NALA has a resolution in favor of it.
5:37:12 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if the planning and zoning department
had granted a conditional use permit.
MR. MCQUEEN replied that a conditional permit has been granted
recently to remove the remaining rock, but for nothing else.
5:37:49 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked who gave the quarry to the Railroad after
the Army was done with it.
MR. GAMBLE replied the BIA closed the school and moved it; the
land that had been retained for the school grounds went up for
grabs. The ARRC said it wanted the quarry and in the original
document review, a letter was found between the Railroad and the
BIA in which the BIA asked a couple of questions, those were
answered, and very simply the land was transferred to the
Railroad.
SENATOR STEVENS said he thought this was the right thing to do.
5:39:33 PM
MR. GAMBLE added that the federal government also removed its
objection when it saw the progress that had been made and
reviewed the signed documents going forward to a resolution.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked Mr. Alex if he supported the land transfer.
MR. ALEX replied yes.
SENATOR STEDMAN moved to pass SB 103 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was
so ordered. There being no further business to come before the
committee, Chair Huggins adjourned the meeting at 5:40:43 PM.
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